rts-league.org

You are not logged in.

Announcement

Do you want a new forum account? Send us an e-mail with your desired nick and we'll get it done!
(If the link doesn't work for you, right-click on it and save the e-mail address for use in your e-mail client)

#1 2017-12-12 16:48:46

NHN_Laguens
AoC Clan Operator NHN|B
Registered: 2017-10-31
Posts: 16

Round 2: NHN b. Vs VNLS

Hi guys!! Can play on Saturday at 19:00 gmt?

Offline

 

#2 2017-12-14 17:32:59

Forever
AoC Clan Operator NHN
Registered: 2016-09-21
Posts: 290

Re: Round 2: NHN b. Vs VNLS

Hellooooo VLNS where are you?

Online

 

#3 2017-12-14 20:21:18

rablebok
AoC Clan Operator VLNS
From: Norway
Registered: 2015-05-21
Posts: 84

Re: Round 2: NHN b. Vs VNLS

Hi,
We are trying to get enough to confirm Saturday, will get back as soon as possible.

Offline

 

#4 2017-12-16 11:08:51

rablebok
AoC Clan Operator VLNS
From: Norway
Registered: 2015-05-21
Posts: 84

Re: Round 2: NHN b. Vs VNLS

Confirming 19 GMT.

Offline

 

#5 2017-12-16 14:13:21

Forever
AoC Clan Operator NHN
Registered: 2016-09-21
Posts: 290

Re: Round 2: NHN b. Vs VNLS

Confirmed

Online

 

#6 2017-12-17 14:49:59

rablebok
AoC Clan Operator VLNS
From: Norway
Registered: 2015-05-21
Posts: 84

Re: Round 2: NHN b. Vs VNLS

Regarding nomad game:
Richards(grey) hit my(yellow) vil once within 20 sec, later leguens(purple) walled my vil walking to build tc. I think both of those situations is against the rules.

It wasn't as game deciding as Cong deleting his tc, but for future matches the rules should be followed.

Offline

 

#7 2017-12-17 15:42:49

NHN_Laguens
AoC Clan Operator NHN|B
Registered: 2017-10-31
Posts: 16

Re: Round 2: NHN b. Vs VNLS

, i only closing mi tc.... your vill hasnt walled... you can go your tc, but you  choose  atack my vill before 3 minuts and laming 3 pig...dont cry men

Offline

 

#8 2017-12-17 15:48:35

Cong4ever
AoC Clan Operator VLNS
Registered: 2017-12-17
Posts: 16

Re: Round 2: NHN b. Vs VNLS

Hey, 1 game on Nomad Rablebook got attacked by NhN R1chards before 1 min. Also Nhn LaGuEnS wall blocked Rablebook vill, so Rable had to take a much longer path to walk home to his tc. I know for certain the second lame( the wall block) was on purpose to delay Rables start. We paused the game and tried to talk to NhN B that lamming is not allowed before 3 min. However they would not listen to uss, so our last option was to play on and come back with the game rules ass evidence.

Also after 4 min gametime they had already paused 2-3 times then they pause another time. LaGuEns says he need to close twicth because of lag. (cmon really, why not doing that before game).  Then I really starting to get annoyed, So when I tried to write to them, press enter, I also pressed delete inside the pause so straight after the pause my tc got deleted. So the game was basicly a 3vs4.

But I would not delete tc and Rable would not get delayed if Nhn didnt pause few times and abuse the lame rules. I would like to request a new nomad game.

Game link http://www.voobly.com/match/view/16889590

Ty and merry good christmas:)

Last edited by Cong4ever (Today 10:28:26)

Last edited by Cong4ever (2017-12-17 18:42:59)

Offline

 

#9 2017-12-17 16:01:09

Cong4ever
AoC Clan Operator VLNS
Registered: 2017-12-17
Posts: 16

Re: Round 2: NHN b. Vs VNLS

NHN_Laguens wrote:

, i only closing mi tc.... your vill hasnt walled... you can go your tc, but you  choose  atack my vill before 3 minuts and laming 3 pig...dont cry men

cmon bruh. Thats explaination really dumb. U and Rable had a vill race and U was 1 tile ahead of Rablebook. U yust finish 2 palisades quick wall to denied Rables vill to walk trough. Dont try to denied that. Go and watch rec again:)

It also true that Rable started to prepare the lame before 3 min.
He started to box wall around his will. 2.50 ich game min and attack the boar around 2.57. The boars died after 3 mins. Im not sure if that qaulifies as lamming, but lets say Rable lamed. But that would not happen if U didnt quick walled. Then Rables vill would be far gone. Dont denied that:)?

Last edited by Cong4ever (2017-12-17 16:02:12)

Offline

 

#10 2017-12-17 16:13:52

Forever
AoC Clan Operator NHN
Registered: 2016-09-21
Posts: 290

Re: Round 2: NHN b. Vs VNLS

If iim correct, if u guys tought the game shouldnt have been continued, u guys have to resign and make a reclamation, not continue the game until the end. That validates the result in any case, at least thats how i understand the rules.

Online

 

#11 2017-12-17 16:23:04

Forever
AoC Clan Operator NHN
Registered: 2016-09-21
Posts: 290

Re: Round 2: NHN b. Vs VNLS

But let Adder decide, he is the one who knows the rules 100% and will make the right choice. We dont see any reason to eliminate our clear victory.

Online

 

#12 2017-12-17 16:36:07

Black Adder
League Administrator
From: Praha, Czech Republic
Registered: 2007-11-15
Posts: 6493

Re: Round 2: NHN b. Vs VNLS

Thanks for the report, we'll look into it.


[nex]Black__Adder (@BlackAdderPlays)

"When did I realize I was God? Well, I was praying and I suddenly realized I was talking to myself." Peter O'Toole
"The true measure of a hero is when a man lays down his life with the knowledge that those he saves... will never know." - The Outer Limits

Follow RTSL on Facebook

Offline

 

#13 2017-12-17 17:09:58

BuzZ_Sinken
AoC Clan Operator BuzZ
Registered: 2017-11-08
Posts: 20

Re: Round 2: NHN b. Vs VNLS

Forever wrote:

But let Adder decide, he is the one who knows the rules 100% and will make the right choice. We dont see any reason to eliminate our clear victory.

I mean, the reason would be that your team was pausing over and over unecessarily, (closing twitch... stream cheating? Or just not preparing at all for the tournament by pausing a stream first?). You also actually lamed which is against the rules (and which I know your team knows about, since you complained that BuzZ lamed). You also showed no sportmanship by not restarting a game where a player deletes a TC due to a pause (which I guess you can't be blamed for). I also think a game like this should be played on. If it's not, then VLNS would fuck themselves over by resigning and giving you the win if they were wrong, instead playing the game and then reporting.

Offline

 

#14 2017-12-17 18:10:31

Forever
AoC Clan Operator NHN
Registered: 2016-09-21
Posts: 290

Re: Round 2: NHN b. Vs VNLS

VLNS didnt ask for restart, there was no stream, they wanted to continue.... is better to check things before giving opinion

Online

 

#15 2018-01-01 01:29:08

Black Adder
League Administrator
From: Praha, Czech Republic
Registered: 2007-11-15
Posts: 6493

Re: Round 2: NHN b. Vs VNLS

Resolution to this matter as posted in the other thread:

robo wrote:

Firstly NHN R1CHARDS performed the first "lame" by attacking VLNS Rablebok's Villager at 00:22. This is just a single hit and does nothing to severely hinder Rablebok.
Followed by NHN LaGuEnS deliberately walling out VLNS Rablebok's villager at 02:00. This was clearly not an attempt to "close off your tc" as you walled out your own villager. Usually when a player walls, they want their villagers on the inside where they are safe and can gather resources.

This breaks the Nomad specific rules "When playing Nomad and Land Nomad, no players are allowed to intentionally slow down their opponents' progress in the first three minutes of the game. This includes villager wars, building palisade walls..."

Following this VLNS Rablebok fights back against VLNS LaGuEnS villager, again just like R1CHARDS this does only 1 hit and does not have any meaningful impact on the game. He then goes on to make some palisade walls and kill the boars. While this also technically breaks the rules about placing palisades, it was in response to LaGuEnS previous "lame" so will be ignored.
The killing of the boars is not against any rules whatsoever.

Immediately after either of these instances VLNS could have restarted the game under the Nomad rules "When playing Nomad and Land Nomad, no players are allowed to intentionally slow down their opponents' progress in the first three minutes of the game. This includes villager wars, building palisade walls, sheep stealing, and barracks first starts. In such a case the game has to be restarted." As they did not take advantage of this rule and continued to play out the game the result will stand.


As for VLNS Cong4ever unfortunate TC deletion, there is no evidence within the game chat that any member of VLNS said that a tc had been deleted accidentally during the mass pausing and chatting of that time period. If they had mentioned it, and considering it happened so early in the game, I'm sure a fair minded and good sportsman like clan such as NHN would have gladly restarted the game.


In the future can all clans, especially the clan who is choosing the home map, and have already played it during this season, please ensure that you fully understand all the rules. Any future  breeches will be looked at in a much less forgiving light.


[nex]Black__Adder (@BlackAdderPlays)

"When did I realize I was God? Well, I was praying and I suddenly realized I was talking to myself." Peter O'Toole
"The true measure of a hero is when a man lays down his life with the knowledge that those he saves... will never know." - The Outer Limits

Follow RTSL on Facebook

Offline

 

#16 2018-01-03 19:13:10

Cong4ever
AoC Clan Operator VLNS
Registered: 2017-12-17
Posts: 16

Re: Round 2: NHN b. Vs VNLS

Hey, have U discuss this decision? I dont wanna complain about that U / staff let the game result standing. So NHN B relax. However I wanna improve this and future tournement, so with all the respect I wanna complain on what U saying, and how U concludes to this solution. This is bad for this, and future tournements. I also wanna complain about the nomad rule that lamming has no consequense.

Im really gratefull for all the work staff does, to have tournement like this. And again with all the respect, I wanna complain to improve future tournements:).

If a specific game rule gets abused, and has no consequense, people will abuse it to theire advantage. Its really silly to have a gamerule on nomad when U can intentionally slow down their opponents' progress in the first three minutes and get a restart. Even worse is it when it is opponents responsibility to know the game rule to demand a re.

Intentonally breaking the gamerules should be punished with a admin loss. On every other tournement I can remember, this has been the case. I think it was Canada a vs China A last summer in NC on nomad. When a China player killed a villager to Canada player with his tc at 3.58 game min. 2 seconds before the lamerule ended. This result to a admin loss to China A. There are no reason to intentionally lame when gamerules tells opposite. And therefore there should be punishment for breaking the rules.

Is a usual gamerule that lamming is not allowed on Nomad/ln 3-4 first min. Thats why I say to my team, this is a aw. However when we talked to them they didnt hear to what we said about the lamming. They even defend themself that they didnt lame. The only intrest NHN B had was to continued game. Read the game chat again please. Also after the game they still defending themselfe.


Even NHN Laguens come upp with some bullshit lie that he tried to wall. U busted him in lying. I dont know what u mean when saying? I'm sure a fair minded and good sportsman like clan such as NHN would have gladly restarted the game. Even Sinken confirms that NHN B knows about the lamming. (Sinken) You also actually lamed which is against the rules (and which I know your team knows about, since you complained that BuzZ lamed.

I dont know what U mean when saying NHN. Maybe U/staff got some good experience, fair minded and god sportmanship with other members of the clan. There are almost 50 members, so that might be the case.


But if U saying after all i told U that NHN B would have gladly restarted the game If I told them I deleted Tc. That make no sense. How they behaved during 1 game tells the opposite. Im sure that they would laugh about it (11111111111111111111111111111111111) and 14 14 in chat).

Im not really after a re anymore, Im yust hoping that NHN B admits that they know and abuse the lamming rule. Also the many pauses that occured ig that I deleted tc would not happend if we had play game smoothly. That means no lag and 3-4 pauses.


But my main purpose is that I want futher improments for RTSL.


1) Change the Nomad gamerule. ( At least dont give people who abuses gamerules advantage). 
2) Listen more to facts than think people are honest and goodhearted

Last edited by Cong4ever (2018-01-03 19:46:34)

Offline

 

#17 2018-01-07 02:35:21

Black Adder
League Administrator
From: Praha, Czech Republic
Registered: 2007-11-15
Posts: 6493

Re: Round 2: NHN b. Vs VNLS

Hey,

Thanks for your input and concerns about the matter - the issue here is that the rule is pretty clear, especially in this case, which means the game should've been restarted on the spot, and that didn't happen. Instead, you discussed the situation briefly and then decided to play the game out, and now you're basically asking for a second chance on the game because a rule was broken you decided to ignore and play through - that's just not how it should go.

Ideally what should've happened was you checking the rules during the pause when you were discussing the situation online - this would've resolved any doubts, as, again, the rule is very specific and clear for this case, and the game should've been restarted on the spot, without playing it out. Both sides are responsible for knowing the rules, you cannot lay blame on the other clan for your ignorance.

The purpose of the Nomad rule is not to punish (there is no penalty, no Admin Loss or anything coming out of it, unless it's abused for non-warranted restarts, that would, of course, be penalised), it's meant as a safeguard helping players who are not familiar with the map, as in RTS League you are playing plenty of different maps you might not be intimately familiar with, and Nomad is extra specific, to avoid wrong situations and have the games played in a community-agreed-upon manner. You cannot transpose other tournament's rules on RTS League rules.

Best course of action in situations like these is to actually check the rules to make sure you know your stance is correct (or not), and if you cannot reach an agreement on the situation with the opponents, just contact a staffer if one's online or file a dispute on the forums. I know you meant well, but trying to interpret the rules by yourself is always risky business (and here it actually wasn't needed, the rule was really very clear).

We're sorry you had to go through this unfortunate experience here, hope you'll have better games in the matches to come and you won't have to deal with similar problems anymore, as clans having fun is the most important quality we strive for at RTS League smile


[nex]Black__Adder (@BlackAdderPlays)

"When did I realize I was God? Well, I was praying and I suddenly realized I was talking to myself." Peter O'Toole
"The true measure of a hero is when a man lays down his life with the knowledge that those he saves... will never know." - The Outer Limits

Follow RTSL on Facebook

Offline

 

#18 2018-01-08 16:15:50

Cong4ever
AoC Clan Operator VLNS
Registered: 2017-12-17
Posts: 16

Re: Round 2: NHN b. Vs VNLS

Hey, again. Im sorry if I insulted U/staff somehow by changing a gamerule. I understand the nomad rule, helping new players.   
I find it sad that U belives that me (VLNS) wanted to get a second chance because NHN B broke a gamerule. There was not many words, commucation between uss during games. But atleast i felt the tension. I felt there was no time to check out the game rules during the game. And there was no staff around that time either. Thats was why I also didnt say anything after I deleted tc. Because I felt they woudnt care, and yust wanting the game to continue. I hope we can forget about this game and look forward to machtes to come:)

Offline

 

#19 2018-01-09 02:24:58

Black Adder
League Administrator
From: Praha, Czech Republic
Registered: 2007-11-15
Posts: 6493

Re: Round 2: NHN b. Vs VNLS

No offence taken and again, thanks for the suggestions - it's not what we think or not, it's how it is - giving a restart here would be giving a second chance, and there's not enough reason to award that.

You shouldn't feel somehow pressured by the opponents to do anything you don't want, especially when it concerns the rules, doubly especially when all you need to do is actually check the rules in a minute (and tbh, such basic rules should be learnt before even playing any games). They were legit wrong (you weren't exactly right either with the AWs and such) and quick look to the rules would have resolved that^^

Well, let this be a learning experience for the next time (which hopefully won't come too soon and you'll have only problem-free games from now on smile ).


[nex]Black__Adder (@BlackAdderPlays)

"When did I realize I was God? Well, I was praying and I suddenly realized I was talking to myself." Peter O'Toole
"The true measure of a hero is when a man lays down his life with the knowledge that those he saves... will never know." - The Outer Limits

Follow RTSL on Facebook

Offline

 

Board footer

©Copyright 2007-2018 by RTS-League.com Hosting provided by Maximumdirect.net This page generated in 3 milliseconds.