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#1 2013-01-21 21:25:30

LNC_TheCrippler
Veteran
Registered: 2013-01-09
Posts: 292

Two teams from the same clan isn't allowed this season? :(

awww, hopefully this rule is changed in the  future, some teams have lots of good players and everyone wants to play.

With more players, it will also keep the AoT communtiy active.

...

Only 3 clans had two teams DoD, vK & mG. The league staff should let them play, they waited one extra week for this to start. What will happen next season, a clan will just split to make two clans just for RTSL.  hmm

Last edited by LNC_TheCrippler (2013-01-22 08:11:35)


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#2 2013-01-22 06:25:39

DoD_HaGGiS
Member
Registered: 2011-11-25
Posts: 95

Re: Two teams from the same clan isn't allowed this season? :(

RTSL is pure jokes if you dont allow two teams...

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#3 2013-01-22 09:38:34

DoD_HaGGiS
Member
Registered: 2011-11-25
Posts: 95

Re: Two teams from the same clan isn't allowed this season? :(

ok, so you are going to allow two teams?  or atleast two teams for DoD considering we have alot of memembers, over 6 aot experts, and i know for a fact DoD have never had a admin loss against them for atleast 3-4 seasons... probs longer but i cant say for fact.

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#4 2013-01-22 13:07:30

Kaos
Newbie
Registered: 2013-01-22
Posts: 2

Re: Two teams from the same clan isn't allowed this season? :(

I do think that it's a drastic action to change the rule or create a new one without even discuss this with the clans that have signup more than just 1 team, and for example DoD B and mG B have been playing in this league for some seasons so removing those groups as well  as  vK (group B) doesn't seem like a fair decision.

Remember that there won't be a RTS League without people and clans playing on it, which is pretty obvious, so removing these groups from the league doesn't make any sense to me.

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#5 2013-01-22 13:24:15

Fen
RTSL Alumnus
Registered: 2012-01-17
Posts: 367

Re: Two teams from the same clan isn't allowed this season? :(

i have to correct you and tell you the obvious, mG B didn't play in the finals, which is not preferable, and one 2nd was violating the rules and many 2nd teams dropped.


http://images.rts-league.org/hall/aot/aot_season17_first.pnghttp://images.rts-league.org/hall/aot/aot_season18_first.png

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#6 2013-01-22 14:30:03

Black Adder
League Administrator
From: Praha, Czech Republic
Registered: 2007-11-15
Posts: 6355

Re: Two teams from the same clan isn't allowed this season? :(

As posted in the Season 19 opening news:

Due to last season's issues (unfortunately including also the final matches) and an overall drop in game activity, we have decided to ensure the best way we can that the participating clans will finish the season to its fullest even in the face of unforeseen circumstances like last season. To that end, this season will include only full clans competing without their B teams.

Game activity is not great and even strong clans suddenly fall on hard times when they least expect it - last season, that was the case for mG who had two teams in the finals and in the third-place match and both the teams had serious trouble getting players to play. Both those matches remained unplayed. I do not think anyone expected this from a clan like Mighty Genaration.

We strongly believe this measure will help stabilize the League and the competing clans, and, quite possibly, even help them in case of unforeseen complications of any kind within their team, thus helping all the other clans to avoid scheduling problems.


[nex]Black__Adder (@BlackAdderPlays)

"When did I realize I was God? Well, I was praying and I suddenly realized I was talking to myself." – Peter O'Toole
"The true measure of a hero is when a man lays down his life with the knowledge that those he saves... will never know." - The Outer Limits

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#7 2013-01-22 15:53:06

DoD_HaGGiS
Member
Registered: 2011-11-25
Posts: 95

Re: Two teams from the same clan isn't allowed this season? :(

So cause mG refused and filled their roaster with inactive players, you are punishing other clans? Why not just tell mG they can only have one team, like I said earlier DoD A, B or C has never had an admin loss, so why are we getting punished? You say its because if a hard time hits us and we have members that go inactive, DoD is a well structured clan and even if half or members go missing we could still easily get two teams to the podium postion.

What is the point of having the minimum players need to particpate if your going to just say only one team per clan? Surely by me providing the 6+ memembers it is irrelevant on if they are in the same clan as another 6+ team. Baisically you are just killing activity and I'm pretty sure that is the opposite of what the league is trying to achieve.

What if I said DoD|B was nothing to do with DoD that would mean we are allowed in? We have the minimum 6+ members, so how is that any different to being a different clan?

I hope you realise your massive error and hope to see DoD|B put into Div1 and we are allowed to enjoy this game.

Last edited by DoD_HaGGiS (2013-01-22 16:03:06)

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#8 2013-01-22 17:09:52

Black Adder
League Administrator
From: Praha, Czech Republic
Registered: 2007-11-15
Posts: 6355

Re: Two teams from the same clan isn't allowed this season? :(

We are reacting to dropping overall activity and sudden and unpredictable problems with activity even within clans that do not seem susceptible to such issues at first sight. We want to go with an approach of making sure that clans with seemingly enough players can withstand even such situations which become more common when game activity lowers.

If situation changes in the next seasons, we might allow multiple teams per clan again.

Also, thank you all for your feedback on this issue.


[nex]Black__Adder (@BlackAdderPlays)

"When did I realize I was God? Well, I was praying and I suddenly realized I was talking to myself." – Peter O'Toole
"The true measure of a hero is when a man lays down his life with the knowledge that those he saves... will never know." - The Outer Limits

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#9 2013-01-23 07:26:09

DoD_HaGGiS
Member
Registered: 2011-11-25
Posts: 95

Re: Two teams from the same clan isn't allowed this season? :(

Black Adder wrote:

If situation changes in the next seasons, we might allow multiple teams per clan again.

This is so stupid, so what you are doing is driving away players, then think that aot will continue to grow? By making it more exlcusive you are killing aot.

BTW I made a new clan Called DoD since there is already a clan called this and they are multiple time winners we will call ourselves DoDB to save confusion(leader is DoD_J4Jc3_ Clan operator is me) I have 20+ players, can I take that free spot in Div1?

Tell me, how is this different from being the same clan as DoD and having a second team. Ohwait there is no difference.  This is the most stupid ruling I have seen to date here. Dont get me wrong I appreciate the effort you put in but this is getting ridiculous now.

Last edited by DoD_HaGGiS (2013-01-23 07:26:42)

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#10 2013-01-23 14:46:46

Black Adder
League Administrator
From: Praha, Czech Republic
Registered: 2007-11-15
Posts: 6355

Re: Two teams from the same clan isn't allowed this season? :(

DoD itself participated last season with just 1 team after several seasons with multiple - this clearly states that even your clan has fluctuating activity.

As I said, if situation changes in the following seasons, B teams might get a chance again, they are not a buried idea.


[nex]Black__Adder (@BlackAdderPlays)

"When did I realize I was God? Well, I was praying and I suddenly realized I was talking to myself." – Peter O'Toole
"The true measure of a hero is when a man lays down his life with the knowledge that those he saves... will never know." - The Outer Limits

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#11 2013-01-23 15:02:34

Kaos
Newbie
Registered: 2013-01-22
Posts: 2

Re: Two teams from the same clan isn't allowed this season? :(

Fen wrote:

i have to correct you and tell you the obvious, mG B didn't play in the finals, which is not preferable, and one 2nd was violating the rules and many 2nd teams dropped.

As we talked before, it wasn't mG B and about what happened with GDM or Thx is another problem.

Black Adder wrote:

DoD itself participated last season with just 1 team after several seasons with multiple - this clearly states that even your clan has fluctuating activity.

As I said, if situation changes in the following seasons, B teams might get a chance again, they are not a buried idea.

"following seasons"... with all the respect of the world is this for real?, the staff of the RTS League expect to see more teams in next seasons when you guys are removing 3 B teams out of the league for this season.

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#12 2013-01-23 15:20:22

Jollyman
Veteran
Registered: 2011-06-05
Posts: 262

Re: Two teams from the same clan isn't allowed this season? :(

Guys, the decision had been made. Discuss it again next season.

Yea B teams have been removed Black_Adder clearly stated why. If you're going to Take the RTS-S attitude to everything (flaming and complaining) then nothing will be resolved. Black_Adder has put in a lot of work here, he is most certainly someone we want still supporting our game next year.

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#13 2013-01-23 16:26:09

ChronoJJ
Senior League Staff
Registered: 2009-05-12
Posts: 995

Re: Two teams from the same clan isn't allowed this season? :(

It was a unanimous decision on the part of the staffers, brought about primarily because the A/B teams we had last season caused problems. One set was kicked out, and the other set was unable to play games in the playoffs, resulting in the Final and 3rd Place games not being played. While the whole point of the league is to have fun, it is rather pointless having a league at all when the final two  matches don't get played.

And rather than risk being labeled as 'picking favorites' this season, we decided to disallow B teams across the board. Again, this is something that can definitely be changed in the future, in fact I see a strong possibility of that, especially if clans wanting B teams show that they have no problems getting games scheduled and played.

On a slightly related note, we've added "loser's brackets" (we're trying to find a more positive name than that tongue ) this season, to allow all clans to participate in a postseason of sorts. This will help get players a few more games, and we hope will allow lesser-skilled clans to remain interested, because even if they end up near the bottom of the standings, they can still participate in a tournament at the end to try to maximize position.

Last edited by ChronoJJ (2013-01-23 16:27:16)

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#14 2013-01-24 06:11:59

DoD_J4Jc3
AoT Clan Operator DoD
From: Belgium
Registered: 2009-05-07
Posts: 911
Website

Re: Two teams from the same clan isn't allowed this season? :(

A poor decision overall. DoD had three teams and never dropped a game. We even played vs TSM in finals with extremely rusty players knowing we'd lose just because not showing up is lame. When we had problems, we only signed up one team. When we are extremely active, I have no idea why you would discriminate against us based on other clan's management failures. All you do is decrease activity on this site, DoD site, rtss site and AOT overall. It is clear that for you guys this seems like an easy decision, but it actually has a huge impact on a clan's activity. It is closely collerated with the clan's engagement in RTSL. Bad RTSL activity and results lead to bad clan performance and activity. But it seems like you aren't gonna change it, so you should definitely think through this more carefully for next season as it seems there wasn't really much thinking going on at all.

Last edited by DoD_J4Jc3 (2013-01-24 06:16:01)


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#15 2013-01-24 17:17:58

vK_Odyzeus
Veteran
Registered: 2012-08-01
Posts: 218

Re: Two teams from the same clan isn't allowed this season? :(

I think the decision was a bit drastic, perhaps what should have been done was to punish mG denying the possibility of placing a second team. Because like DoD, we had already two well established groups with members who are very active in the game and you will see drastically minimized their chances of participating.

Just because in 1 season there was a problem with a clan that had 2 teams can not erase how well that worked for clans and for the league to have two teams in many seasons. But I hope that next season the good sense of staff will prevail and this rule will be reconsidered and make it flexible in order to allow clans that are proven consistency and accountability  to register a second team.


http://images.rts-league.org/hall/aot/aot_season18_FP.png

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#16 2013-01-24 19:53:33

DoD_HaGGiS
Member
Registered: 2011-11-25
Posts: 95

Re: Two teams from the same clan isn't allowed this season? :(

Don't start the league. You really should review this decision you have made, as it is completely wrong. And the only people that will support it will be tsm clan. It really isint hard to add say what? 3 more teams to the list? Especially since there is a space in the Div1 group.


Jollyman wrote:

Guys, the decision had been made. Discuss it again next season.

Yea B teams have been removed Black_Adder clearly stated why. If you're going to Take the RTS-S attitude to everything (flaming and complaining) then nothing will be resolved. Black_Adder has put in a lot of work here, he is most certainly someone we want still supporting our game next year.

Jolly, why should i discuss this at next season?  For all we know they might change another rule (after the sign ups yes Fox and I went through the hassle of adding/removing players from our roasters, thanks for the timewaste) that means only spanish national teams clan play... You can say that is an exageration but in reality that is how stupid this rule is. I havent flamed once, and if you dont complain about things they wont know something is wrong, now that is how problems go unresolved.

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#17 2013-01-24 23:47:17

vK_Odyzeus
Veteran
Registered: 2012-08-01
Posts: 218

Re: Two teams from the same clan isn't allowed this season? :(

DoD_HaGGiS wrote:

that means only spanish national teams clan play... You can say that is an exageration but in reality that is how stupid this rule is.

I did not get this section, may you please explain it better?

BTW: vK is a spanish clan and we are affected as well.


http://images.rts-league.org/hall/aot/aot_season18_FP.png

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#18 2013-01-25 01:19:29

Pedestrian
Webmaster
From: Saint Louis, MO, USA
Registered: 2007-11-10
Posts: 1603

Re: Two teams from the same clan isn't allowed this season? :(

If my counting is correct (and it is), this will be the 19th season of the AOT clan league here at RTSL.

Something that some of you may have forgotten is that, until very recently, signing up more than one team from the same clan was strictly forbidden.  It was even written into the rules!

It wasn't until Season 15 that we decided to change this rule - and we did not do it lightly.  There was a serious internal debate among our staff.  Many of us were worried about the negative consequences of that decision - and not just the ability of "B" teams to actually play their games.  RTSL has always had the most success in communities with lots of diversity (many clans, at varying skill levels), and "B" teams tend to pull the community in the opposite direction (fewer, large clans).

Ultimately, we decided to give "B" teams a shot.  It turns out that they provided a small boost to activity, and helped keep the league afloat through some very lean (inactive) times in the AOT community.  But things are looking a bit better now - the community has rebounded a bit - and it's time to move back to the traditional RTSL model.

If you're counting (and I am), this will be the 15th season of RTSL with the traditional "one clan, one team" format (Seasons 1-14, plus the upcoming season).  We have played only 4 seasons where "B" teams were allowed (Seaons 15-18), with very mixed results. 

"B" teams may be allowed back for Season 20 - I won't rule that out.  But we're going to try the traditional rules again for Season 19.

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#19 2013-01-25 01:25:45

Pedestrian
Webmaster
From: Saint Louis, MO, USA
Registered: 2007-11-10
Posts: 1603

Re: Two teams from the same clan isn't allowed this season? :(

By the way, I just saw this:

DoD_HaGGiS wrote:

if you dont complain about things they wont know something is wrong, now that is how problems go unresolved.

I completely agree.  Giving us feedback - as long as you don't start flaming people - is exactly what we need, and expect, from the community.  If Season 19 turns out to be a disaster, I'm sure you will tell us, and we will adjust accordingly for Season 20.

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#20 2013-01-25 13:42:10

TSM_André
AoT Clan Operator TSM
Registered: 2011-11-23
Posts: 639

Re: Two teams from the same clan isn't allowed this season? :(

Pedestrian wrote:

By the way, I just saw this:

DoD_HaGGiS wrote:

if you dont complain about things they wont know something is wrong, now that is how problems go unresolved.

I completely agree.  Giving us feedback - as long as you don't start flaming people - is exactly what we need, and expect, from the community.  If Season 19 turns out to be a disaster, I'm sure you will tell us, and we will adjust accordingly for Season 20.

And prob about time to stop mixing TSM in your complaints haggis/dod/mg, get real arguments instead of witch hunting like usually.

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